I often see unschooling descriptions include something that says that it does not mean educational neglect. Just wondering what your take was on this phrase and how it pertains to unschooling?
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Re: Educational Neglect
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 11:59 AMI guess it depends on your definition of education. If you see education as a predetermined lump of something that has to be stuffed into a child's head, then quantified and made visible through things like test scores, then yeah, unschooling would look a lot like educational neglect. If you see education as learning, real learning at a child's own pace and for his or her own passion, then sending a child to school would look an awful lot like educational neglect. It all depends on how you define your world. I've actually come to a place of feeling like sending my child to school would be a kind of educational neglect. But then, on the other hand, if someday he decides he really wants to go to school, then I'll help him achieve that goal.
The point of unschooling, to my way of thinking, is to live a joyful life--to keep the love of learning alive by letting it unfold naturally, by following your passions together as a family, by treating every interest your child has as important and worthwhile and treating your child with respect, believing they know what they want and need in life. I actually don't give too much thought to ideas like educational neglect, this is just a way to worry yourself out of doing what your heart knows is right because your head, and a lot of fearful people, are telling you otherwise. -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 1:25 PMI agree with you Fairy. However, I posted the same question on a different unschooling board and got a response back that parents are to see to it that their child can do basic academic skills. Generally (despite my sometimes irrational fears that we are doing nothing) we just live our life. There is no curriculum, though occasionally the kids will pick up a workbook or something, or might suggest my six would enjoy doing a dot-to-dot page when he's bored, etc. I think many people would see our way as a form of neglect. I don't make my child do a math page each day/week. I suppose it is possible that a child could be raised this way and not know how to read by age 18 (though, I think improbable).
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Re: Educational Neglect
Mon, March 3, 2008 - 1:41 PMi'd define educational neglect as warehousing children in schools; neglecting them by dropping them off at school and leaving them there, daily. but obviously that's not what's meant in this case.... -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Tue, March 4, 2008 - 7:09 AM"However, I posted the same question on a different unschooling board and got a response back that parents are to see to it that their child can do basic academic skills."
The trouble with this line of thinking is that then you have to begin to define basic academic skills--what does this mean exactly? And then how do you decide when your children should learn them? What if your child takes longer to learn than others? What does it mean to 'see to it'? If by seeing to it you are simply making sure they always have access to all the resources they need without insisting that they learn one thing or another because you've decided it's time, that seems great. But getting in this mindset that we must see to something sets us up for trying to force our children back into the box. It just seems like a slippery slope to me.
Doesn't sound like that's what you're doing, but it sounds like it's worrying you for some reason? For me, embracing unschooling has a lot to do with having faith. I'll admit that if my son were maybe approaching 15 or 16 and still couldn't read, my faith would be a bit shakey! But that scenario is so incredibly unlikely that I'm not going to give it my energy. On the other hand, here's a question for you--what if your child is approaching adulthood and doesn't have an interest in reading? What if he or she truly doesn't care about reading, wants to do something that doesn't require a lot of reading, and insists that reading isn't important to him or her? Do you listen and honor that? Me, I hope I would. Again, that might be seen as educational neglect, but I'd be willing to sport that label if it meant I could truly respect my son as a human being capable of making his own choices in life.
I think we get really busy worrying about what kids should know, what they should do, how they should behave and all the rest, we forget to think about who our kids are. We forget to ask them what they need and want--and who better to tell us than the source itself? Not saying you are doing this, just this question brings up these thoughts for me. -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Mon, March 10, 2008 - 4:51 PMI don't know what I'd do if my child were approaching adulthood and couldn't read/write/do basic math. I too would hope I'd be okay and supportive, but if you call occasional comments from parents, community people mild pressure now(though, generally I don't care), I can't imagine how much pressure I would feel then. I also agree that it is improbable that this would happen. I think that the more probable thing would be that at least one of my kids will not want to go to college. I am definitely okay with this as I see my time spent in college was mostly a waste. What I should have been doing was figuring out what I really wanted to do by trying out different careers. While "no one can take away an education", I am left in debt and not doing what I really want career-wise (I am not talking about being a mother here - I really enjoy that).
Also, I am not concerned that I am neglecting my child. But I do think other people would say so because I don't have paperwork to show what they've done. Also, I am not sure what people mean when they say that unschooling is not unparenting or that it isn't not schooling. I tend to let my kids find their own way, though they could certainly come to me for help. We don't have a set schedule. They don't have to do a "minimum" amount of work. Mostly they play (especially the 3 & 6 yr old). Anyway, I brought this up truly for the sake of discussion. If I have a hidden agenda it may be some small need to feel supported. -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Mon, March 31, 2008 - 1:37 AMhi, i just wanted to chime in here and encourage you that it's great to allow youth to learn at their own pace.
i grew up as an ecclectic homeschooler- an unschooler in that i was choosing my own schedule and to-do list,
and yet i had a lot of learning i did that was a lot more bookish than some other unschooled kids, and i really liked it.
it made a difference to me that i wasn't forced to do any of the work in those books,
and that made me want to. the most joyful part of unschooling to me was that i had the freedom to choose what to do with my days.
i kept a logbook of what i did each day, and that became my record, which may help ease your mind if you do keep track of activities done.
and my mom kept a paper trail of projects i did, and that became the portfolio that got me into college,
and i kept up a lot of activities with other people- children, adults- that gave me a lot of real-life social settings to play and learn in.
i'd encourage folks to make resources available for their kids, for learning the traditional academics can be something young people are interested in as well as 'just playing'. unschooling doesn't have to mean that you have nothing like textbooks available for the children, just don't push them into doing them if they're not ready and thirsty for it. do have learning resources available, and do offer your help if your children want to learn to read! just make sure its fun and suits your style! reading aloud with them a lot will generally be enough to inspire their own journey into reading... sometimes i notice parents that shy away from helping their kids who are asking for help, in the name of unschooling, parents not wanting to create a stuffy 'school at home.' yet remember if your kids show the desire, you're like a guidance counselor, to match them up with the learning tools that suit them best (yes, that could be a text or workbook among a million other tools!) and the teachers or mentors of the moment (that could be you, grandma, the librarian...) and the setting that works best (the living room, the park, the painting studio...) you get to write the story of what education looks like for your family-- with fun, freedom and your own flair. -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 7:16 AMSo wonderful to see a grown unschooler here! I imagine a lot of us just starting out on this journey with our small children often have fears that are hard to quell about whether stepping so far off the beaten path is really the right thing for our kids. It make a world of difference to hear from someone who has experienced this as a kid, rather than just from other parents. Hope you will post more! -
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Re: Educational Neglect
Tue, April 22, 2008 - 10:39 AMglad to hear from you, too...
yes i know what it can be like to step off the beaten path to do homeschooling, and i'm happy to say it often results in grown-ups who spend like stepping off the beaten path as well. i can say there wasn't any tribe.net or internet support back in the late eighties when i started! there was growing without schooling magazine, (now out of print) and it was a yummy written forum where parents and kids alike posted topics and replied to each other... became a brilliant community and we all grew up together thru those pages... and found pen pals etc...
wish there was something like that now, but forums like this are great too.
homeschooling conferences often have panels of grown homeschoolers speaking too, which you might find interesting...
i know the conferences can head toward the school at home stuff with all the curriculum sales, but there can be real gems there too.
and as a kid that's where i made some homeschooled friends that lasted....
have a fun adventure yall!
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Re: Educational Neglect
Wed, April 2, 2008 - 8:18 AMYou may already know this and are just getting at some deeper points than this. Educational neglect is one of the terms that CPS uses as a reason to remove children from a home. I think that a potential fear of homeschooling (especially in communities that the removal of children from homes is more common) would be that CPS could use it as a reason to take their kids. I think the line is to reassure people that they cannot be accused of educational neglect by homeschooling their kids.
